hi ,have a grand voyager with 50k (genuine ) mileage on the clock.I am having intermittent starting issues and wonder if any one has any ideas.From cold ,or when the car has been left over night it is difficult to start, if you crank the engine over it fires and the engine dies, if you do it on the again it fires and dies, on the third time it will start and run normally with just a small puff of black smoke when it starts.
It will then start and run all day without and problems. The idle is smooth and mpg seems to be ok ,ie about 25-28 round town and approx. 40 mpg on a run.The fuel filter and primer pump on the front of the engine have been changed,the filter head was leaking when the bulb was primed,the wire modification has also been carried out.The common rail pressure sensor has also been changed to try to sort the fault but to no avail,there are no fault codes stored in the engine ecu.
I have checked the small valve in the common rail that lets the leakoff return to the tank and seems to open and shut as it should do.I have carried out an injector leak back test ,all seem to be ok all bottles showing 25 -30ml after 3 mins,fuel pressure at idle is approx. 400 bar at full throttle this then rises to 1250 bar approx.
If any one has any ideas or input this would be greatly received
thanks richard

 

it does sound a bit like fuel draining back. Try pumping the primer a couple of times before starting and see if that makes a difference.
oh, also worth checking the resistance of the glowplugs as you may have one down or partially down. The glowplug connector is onto of the triangular alternator bracket.

Regards
Richard

 

thanks for reply Richard,
I have already changed the glow plugs, the one behind the egr pipe is a swine!!
when I prime the filter head it doesnt seem to make a difference to the starting problem. Im going down the line of thinking the problem is electrical and not fuel.I have a old launch x431 and a brand new autel maxidas neither tools will talk to the engine ecu,and my oscilloscope is away for repair at the moment ,so its pretty much like walking down the street with your eyes closed!!.
I have never has the car not start on the third crank it always goes ,so dam annoying because the car is magic apart from that.
thanks richard

 

The glowplugs might not have +12volt on them during cranking -- I do believe there is a relay involved?.

Leedsman.

 

X431 should talk to it, what version of software has it got?, remember it's not a CAN bus car. I[ve got a diagun which is fine with the voyagers. I tried an Autel and yep, it wont talk to the ECU.

Given that you only get a small puff of smoke I don't think that it's a dribbly injector. When you get your scope back it will be interesting to see the rail pressure during cranking. Picoscope has a reference waveform of a 2.5VM on it's website.

Regards
Richard

 

have checked supply to glowplugs ,this is there on ignition and on cranking so seems to be ok.
have checked the rail pressure relief valve in the end of the common rail (not rail pressure sensor),have removed the leak off pipe from the rail and there is no fuel coming out ,so the valve isn't stuck open.
I don't really want to chuck money and play "parts darts" without diagnosing something first ,so I will have to wait till a software upgrade is availaible for the autel ,I spoke to them yesterday and said it could be done in 6 weeks, and my scope is repaired!!
the autel is a cracking bit of kit ,it even reprogrammes keys and fobs on the voyager have done both on mine,but because the diesel engine isn't in the states ,it cant communicate to it!!
thanks richard

 

You seem to have covered most things before coming on here, Fuel rail Yes. Fuel filter replaced. Fuel head replaced. Injectors checked. Rail leak off valve check.
Can't be cam and crank sensors as it runs normal when it runs and Fuel pump makes good pressure.
I'm on with tfb on fuel run back. Only other thing could be "Battery output", which does come up again and again. Leedsman could confer.

 

Easiest battery check is to try cranking with another battery applied across the existing one with jump leads. But you would judge for yourself if the cranking is fast enough?

Leedsman.

 

I know the fuel filter and primer pump has been replaced, but a slack fuel filter or bad O ring is classic for the symptoms you describe. Can I assume that the hand-primer pump is rock hard before your 1st start in the morning and that hand-priming first makes no difference to the 1st start

 

thanks for replys guys ,
am pretty sure the battery is ok ,it is one of the spiral cell ones I have tested it with my bosch tester and it comes up good , when starting the engine turns over fast enough but doesn't seem to catch.
I haven't checked the tightness of the fuel filter ,as you know the filter comes complete with the primer pump from Chrysler ,but I will check it this weekend and post back .
when checking the glow plugs ,I didn't relaise how long they stay on for after the light goes out ie after glow,i will count to 15 after the light goes out and post back.
thanks for everyones input
richard