Black smoke
#21
09-19-2014, 10:21 AM
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Livingston, Scotland
Posts: 307
Addendum re. black smoke --
Look in the exhaust system for any "lambda sensors". If used in a diesel or petrol, they look for free oxygen in the exhaust gasses. When operating properly as sensors in conjunction with a control micro, they adjust for a little free oxygen. This means that --
1) In a petrol engine, the ideal "stoichometric" mixture ratio of 14.7:1 is achieved making for best economy and least pollutants by the lambda control system. The system looks for a little excess air (lambda sensor) by controlling the injector's 'on' time vs. the air going into the engine (via the mass airflow sensor and/or the manifold depression). It's fundamental fact about ALL combustion that you can burn all the air (oxygen) or you can burn all the fuel. THE TWO ARE NOT AT THE SAME RATIO OF FUEL/AIR. If burning all the air there will be excess unburned fuel (wasted money) but a little more power.
2) The diesel situation is slightly different. Up until strict control of diesel pollutants, the diesel ALWAYS worked with excess air, and a lot of that most of the time. No throttling. Now many diesels have the lambda control system since the inlet air is lightly throttled for pollution control. Since most diesels in cars are turbocharged, there will be another sensor in the inlet manifold looking for more than the atmoshperic pressure of 15lbs. so that the "on" time of the injection period can be increased appropriately.
So... black smoke from a micro-controlled commonrail diesel will mean you are well advised to see that all the sensors are working as they should be, and there are no air leaks in the induction system as there shouldn't be. Of course, in the old passive injector system with indirect injection into a swirl-chamber, black smoke usually meant someone had been fiddling with the injector pump to get more power. In the 1960s diesel was about half the price of petrol in the UK., and no-one worried too much about smoke.
Re. discharged battery problems --
After some weeks, it appears that my IOD fuse mod. is working as expected. The only prob. is that one has to follow a different start procedure. The latest procedure is to -- open the door with the key with IOD "off", -- switch on ignition, -- allow 10 secs or so for micros to initialize, -- then start engine. Go to the secret switch (I have external to the car) and switch "on" the IOD system. The turn-indicators will flash with a hesitation after TWO flashes, then go out. There will be NO siren. All will then be as normal. No lifting of bonnet/hood. With this current-saving system, the vehicle starts ok after a week of parking. You should of course ensure your battery has not become badly sulphated due to previous long-term discharge. If it is sulphated, it will not accept a charge as normal. Also you should ensure the battery is not being discharged some other way. Example: the ignition key is being pulled out after switch-off in the "accessories" position instead of the "off" position due to wear of the lock barrel. You can forget any current draw during "engine-running" as the alternator supplies ALL this current up to 50amps or more. It holds the battery to 13.8volt in normal running for GVs charging program.
Leedsman.
Addendum:--
There is also a possibility of mis-timed injection, although not likely. If the diesel is running too far advanced, there will be a rattly knock-ping from the engine and eventual damage to cyl. head or head gasket. If timing is too retarded there will be black smoke and a considerable loss of power. The control micro looks at the crank position via the crank sensor to time the injection pulse. This injection timing has to be quite accurate, +/- half degree or so.
Look in the exhaust system for any "lambda sensors". If used in a diesel or petrol, they look for free oxygen in the exhaust gasses. When operating properly as sensors in conjunction with a control micro, they adjust for a little free oxygen. This means that --
1) In a petrol engine, the ideal "stoichometric" mixture ratio of 14.7:1 is achieved making for best economy and least pollutants by the lambda control system. The system looks for a little excess air (lambda sensor) by controlling the injector's 'on' time vs. the air going into the engine (via the mass airflow sensor and/or the manifold depression). It's fundamental fact about ALL combustion that you can burn all the air (oxygen) or you can burn all the fuel. THE TWO ARE NOT AT THE SAME RATIO OF FUEL/AIR. If burning all the air there will be excess unburned fuel (wasted money) but a little more power.
2) The diesel situation is slightly different. Up until strict control of diesel pollutants, the diesel ALWAYS worked with excess air, and a lot of that most of the time. No throttling. Now many diesels have the lambda control system since the inlet air is lightly throttled for pollution control. Since most diesels in cars are turbocharged, there will be another sensor in the inlet manifold looking for more than the atmoshperic pressure of 15lbs. so that the "on" time of the injection period can be increased appropriately.
So... black smoke from a micro-controlled commonrail diesel will mean you are well advised to see that all the sensors are working as they should be, and there are no air leaks in the induction system as there shouldn't be. Of course, in the old passive injector system with indirect injection into a swirl-chamber, black smoke usually meant someone had been fiddling with the injector pump to get more power. In the 1960s diesel was about half the price of petrol in the UK., and no-one worried too much about smoke.
Re. discharged battery problems --
After some weeks, it appears that my IOD fuse mod. is working as expected. The only prob. is that one has to follow a different start procedure. The latest procedure is to -- open the door with the key with IOD "off", -- switch on ignition, -- allow 10 secs or so for micros to initialize, -- then start engine. Go to the secret switch (I have external to the car) and switch "on" the IOD system. The turn-indicators will flash with a hesitation after TWO flashes, then go out. There will be NO siren. All will then be as normal. No lifting of bonnet/hood. With this current-saving system, the vehicle starts ok after a week of parking. You should of course ensure your battery has not become badly sulphated due to previous long-term discharge. If it is sulphated, it will not accept a charge as normal. Also you should ensure the battery is not being discharged some other way. Example: the ignition key is being pulled out after switch-off in the "accessories" position instead of the "off" position due to wear of the lock barrel. You can forget any current draw during "engine-running" as the alternator supplies ALL this current up to 50amps or more. It holds the battery to 13.8volt in normal running for GVs charging program.
Leedsman.
Addendum:--
There is also a possibility of mis-timed injection, although not likely. If the diesel is running too far advanced, there will be a rattly knock-ping from the engine and eventual damage to cyl. head or head gasket. If timing is too retarded there will be black smoke and a considerable loss of power. The control micro looks at the crank position via the crank sensor to time the injection pulse. This injection timing has to be quite accurate, +/- half degree or so.
#22
09-19-2014, 02:04 PM
hi ,as already has been said I would be looking at the egr valve, very very common cause of black smoke ,do a search on ford transit egr valve. Such a common fault that until recently the aa men used to carry them on their vans !!
If you take off the hose connections and get a small torch and mirror ,have a look inside I suspect you will find lots of thick horrible black gunge holding the actual valve open and off its seat. I cleaned mine out when I first had it and it was bad .fuel systems cleaner bg244 is the best out there ,try that also ,if you can unscrew the fuel filter and put some in there and the other halve in the tank ,then brim it and give it a good run.
richard
If you take off the hose connections and get a small torch and mirror ,have a look inside I suspect you will find lots of thick horrible black gunge holding the actual valve open and off its seat. I cleaned mine out when I first had it and it was bad .fuel systems cleaner bg244 is the best out there ,try that also ,if you can unscrew the fuel filter and put some in there and the other halve in the tank ,then brim it and give it a good run.
richard
#23
09-22-2014, 06:43 PM
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Livingston, Scotland
Posts: 307
Could someone please post a picture of where the egr is located so I can know what to look for. Thanks
#24
10-03-2014, 03:19 AM
If the egr is faulty, then you would probably experience faulty idling (permanently partially open EGR). I doubt it is the egr, but having replaced mine, i found that the egr exit pipe was 40% blocked with carbon... so just cleaning that was worth opening it up. You can see the thread at https://www.chryslerforum.com/forum/...736/#post83438 for egr stuff, including how to access on a 2.5 CRD 2002 engine. I also replaced the solenoid as it was making a pretty bad sound, even though it had electrical continuity. The new solenoid is silent except for the sound of the vacuum hiss. All this has virtually eliminated the rough idling, but not the black smoke.
I suspect that the black smoke is due to too much fuel, even if the consumption numbers are good. See https://www.chryslerforum.com/forum/...969/#post83495 for testing injectors - apparantly it's easy.. I have not done it yet, but will try this weekend, if I can obtain some 7mm outer diameter hosepipe.
I suspect that the black smoke is due to too much fuel, even if the consumption numbers are good. See https://www.chryslerforum.com/forum/...969/#post83495 for testing injectors - apparantly it's easy.. I have not done it yet, but will try this weekend, if I can obtain some 7mm outer diameter hosepipe.
#25
10-03-2014, 03:23 AM
BTW, I did clean up the Boost Pressure Sensor...just behind the EGR solenoid and next to Fuel Pressure Sensor (which is plugged into common rail). Just don't drop the screws and washers into intake manifold as you remove it (no I didn'....!). Some carb cleaner and a can of compressed air is what you need. This sensor is used by the ECM to determine the fuel / air / on-time for injectors.
#26
10-03-2014, 05:16 AM
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Livingston, Scotland
Posts: 307
@ KKc thanks will look into that.
I bought EGR and turbo cleaner from Europarts, is it any good and am i correct that i spray it into air intake manifold?
I bought EGR and turbo cleaner from Europarts, is it any good and am i correct that i spray it into air intake manifold?
#27
10-05-2014, 09:06 AM
I am not convinced about using these cleaners. I did use up one can of Bardahl.. but when I used it I could hear a nasty knock (once only for each spray burst and at the beginning of spray burst) as the stuff explodes in the cylinder it hits. Then the engine revs up and it's ok. Thing is the spray has to go through combustion and then part of enters the egr valve so don't understand how it can do any cleaning.
#28
10-05-2014, 09:46 AM
Lotsa posts on black smoke at the moment, and realms of thoughtful advice. Maybe because its one of those cuda wuda shuda questions - eliminating what it isn't would be a better starting point.
Soot / Smell / Wet / Dry / Plugged fuel filter / Plugged CAT / Air in and Exhaust out leaks
Black = fuel injection
Blue = engine oil
White coolant
Air and fuel filters every 12 months regardless is a good cheap prevention. A cheap fuel filter is often overlooked and can cause lotsa black smoke, a dirty exhaust system can cause reduced turbo boost and resulting soot.
Soot / Smell / Wet / Dry / Plugged fuel filter / Plugged CAT / Air in and Exhaust out leaks
Black = fuel injection
Blue = engine oil
White coolant
Air and fuel filters every 12 months regardless is a good cheap prevention. A cheap fuel filter is often overlooked and can cause lotsa black smoke, a dirty exhaust system can cause reduced turbo boost and resulting soot.
#29
10-27-2014, 10:33 AM
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Livingston, Scotland
Posts: 307
256 mile round trip and tin of Forte diesel treament and black smoke issue persists. Was my first time taking the car on such a long trip as I only jse it weekends. The whole family are unanimous we lofe the car and how comfortable it is and we should fix the little ****les amd keep it. I cant emphasise enough how I love it now. Speeds up to 80mph in comfort
why is the word ni g g l e s auto edited???
why is the word ni g g l e s auto edited???
Last edited by darkcild101; 10-27-2014 at 10:36 AM.
