Egr valve 2.5 crd
#1
04-05-2013 | 12:46 PM
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Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8
Egr valve 2.5 crd
hello folks I am trying to sort out a egr fault with a chrysler voyager 2.5 CRD diesel engine. I cannot see the EGR valve I am not sure if I am looking in the right place.
I read you need to remove wiper motor for access ? My question is why as the wiper motor is housed in the bulkhead under another panel. once you remove wiper motor does the plastic under panel clip away to improve access ?? really looks hard as I cannot even see the egr valve?
I am looking behind oil filler cap with a torch all I can see is the ducting for the air box ?
A good guide or any help pointing me in the right direction would be good as the van is currently parked up as it keeps going into limp mode.
ruled out air mass as I tried that
I read you need to remove wiper motor for access ? My question is why as the wiper motor is housed in the bulkhead under another panel. once you remove wiper motor does the plastic under panel clip away to improve access ?? really looks hard as I cannot even see the egr valve?
I am looking behind oil filler cap with a torch all I can see is the ducting for the air box ?
A good guide or any help pointing me in the right direction would be good as the van is currently parked up as it keeps going into limp mode.
ruled out air mass as I tried that
#2
04-05-2013 | 03:21 PM
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,782
From: Dumfries....
Hi, Go to 3-27-13 under Ticking Time Bomb thread and select page 3.
Third picture from left, bring it up. Now this picture shows the wiper motor tray removed to gain better access. The EGR valve is positioned to the right of the green short coolant coupling hose and down back of engine.
It would be ideal if you were doing the thermostat renewal as well, as all this has to be removed.
Goggs.
Third picture from left, bring it up. Now this picture shows the wiper motor tray removed to gain better access. The EGR valve is positioned to the right of the green short coolant coupling hose and down back of engine.
It would be ideal if you were doing the thermostat renewal as well, as all this has to be removed.
Goggs.
#3
04-05-2013 | 08:43 PM
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Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8
hi goggs thank you for taking time to reply and descriptions on how to do this. I cannot access pictures as I just joined. Is it possible for some one to forward me pics at zakariah786@hotmail.com
many thanks
many thanks
#4
04-09-2013 | 11:14 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 69
Hi! I dont know if you have sorted this out yet? On the 2.5 CRD the EGR valve is at the back of the engine and you do have to remove the wipers; remove the tray cover; remove the wiper drive assembly and remove the wiper tray itself - it is not all that difficult although it can be awkward. You will then have better access to the back of the engine - if that is what you want - but why do you want to mess with the EGR valve in the first place? Why do you think it is causing a problem?
I had an EGR fault code, but it turned out to have nothing to do with the EGR and was, in fact the air mass sensor putting out an incorrect reading (low voltage) the ECU then took this bad information and tried to match everything, including EGR to it and when it couldnt it decided the EGR must be faulty - it was not and all I had to do was clean the MAF sansor (you have to be carefull here because some "cleaners" attack plastic). This was after I had had the EGR out and taken apart along with just about everything else. There was 125K on my Grand Voyager at the time and although the intake manifold was a little sooty there was no real cause for concern.
So why do you think EGR is your problem?
Regards
I had an EGR fault code, but it turned out to have nothing to do with the EGR and was, in fact the air mass sensor putting out an incorrect reading (low voltage) the ECU then took this bad information and tried to match everything, including EGR to it and when it couldnt it decided the EGR must be faulty - it was not and all I had to do was clean the MAF sansor (you have to be carefull here because some "cleaners" attack plastic). This was after I had had the EGR out and taken apart along with just about everything else. There was 125K on my Grand Voyager at the time and although the intake manifold was a little sooty there was no real cause for concern.
So why do you think EGR is your problem?
Regards
#5
04-10-2013 | 02:05 PM
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Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8
thank you for your lengthy reply much appreciated.
I think it is EGR as I have tried 3 air mass meters original bosch ones from a breaker who kept replacing them to help me resolve problem.
I have fault code E 400.1 which some one mentioned is to do with EGR also get P0100 which is air mass emissions related fault
The van starts fine but is smoky a little also as soon as it is revved past 2K it goes into limp mode and engine light comes on will not disappear until diagnostic scanner plugged in and reset.
I think it is EGR as I have tried 3 air mass meters original bosch ones from a breaker who kept replacing them to help me resolve problem.
I have fault code E 400.1 which some one mentioned is to do with EGR also get P0100 which is air mass emissions related fault
The van starts fine but is smoky a little also as soon as it is revved past 2K it goes into limp mode and engine light comes on will not disappear until diagnostic scanner plugged in and reset.
#6
04-10-2013 | 05:06 PM
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 320
From: Lanarkshire
Just in passing, I'd had a non chrysler car that used to put out a MAF fault when it was really the EGR that was causing the problem.
Going to be removing the wiper assembly soon to remove the injectors, might give the EGR a clean whilst it's out.
Going to be removing the wiper assembly soon to remove the injectors, might give the EGR a clean whilst it's out.
#8
04-11-2013 | 10:37 AM
Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 69
OK
To start with, Scotsman4th you dont have to remove the wipers/tray to pull the injectors and if you do pull the injectors it is critical that you use new copper "washer" gaskets and ensure the surface they are seating to is absolutely, totally, spotlessly clean. I might add that there is a current service letter to use ceramic grease when reinstalling the Injectors too.
The engine will run without the MAF sensor, at least mine did, but not necessarily that well - perhaps it would have quit too at 2000 RPM?
To be honest the problem as described by cbr786 really does not sound like EGR but more like a fuelling problem - the engine will shut down if it sees wrong fuel pressure information - at speed the engine could be sucking air into the fuel heater - they typically crack between the two pins of the electrical plug connection and if you pull the plug and smell fuel - guess what. Equally the fuel filter could be installed improperly. Or the fuel pump, or pressure sensor could be faulty. Equally injector(s) could produce the described behaviour by returning too much fuel. The ECU would see the excess demands of the injectors as a fault and go into limp home mode to save the engine, once it could no longer adjust to the demand. EGR is used to reduce Oxygen in the air introduced into the engine so that is has a cooler burn temperature and produces lass nasty gas. Some people do away with it all together, but I do not think that too wise. This does not sound like that sort of problem and, in fact, there are several P0 codes that do reflect upon EGR but not that have been mentioned.
The ECU uses data from the MAF to make a number of key decisions in running the engine, in fact, I would say the MAF was likely a primary consideration and, to be fair, a fault code that identifies an EGR fault may not be an EGR fault - it just appears that way to the ECU that is trying to resolve a difficulty that using EGR should help, but is not. That does not mean an EGR fault, it only means that there appears to be an EGR fault based upon the information the ECU has, which may in fact be in error and will be; if there is a problem with the MAF and/or its associated circuitry. I will always look at the MAF first.
I think that the hints you mention are perhaps leading you in the wrong direction, as similar fault codes led me astray in the past. I would not worry about the EGR unless you are absolutely sure the MAF Circuit is operating properly - which I doubt.
PO100 indicates (and it is only an indication) a MAF CIRCUIT FAULT so the first thing to check is MAF voltages. I suspect that you will find that the MAF and/or its associated circuit is the problem. You need to know voltage in and voltage out for a start - the circuit could be shorting to ground/earth, especially as Circuit Fault is a clue you appear to have. I dont recognise E400.1 as a OBD code, and would doubt it to be associated with EGR as associated engine codes are P (Powerplant) codes. How did you obtain the quoted codes?
I was wondering what part of the country you live in as there is a forum member living near Huntingdon. Richard has most of the kit needed to troubleshoot... and I have not seen him on this thread. If you live within 100 miles of Huntingdon I would pay him a visit - much less expensive than visiting a Chrysler garage!
vrc8883
To start with, Scotsman4th you dont have to remove the wipers/tray to pull the injectors and if you do pull the injectors it is critical that you use new copper "washer" gaskets and ensure the surface they are seating to is absolutely, totally, spotlessly clean. I might add that there is a current service letter to use ceramic grease when reinstalling the Injectors too.
The engine will run without the MAF sensor, at least mine did, but not necessarily that well - perhaps it would have quit too at 2000 RPM?
To be honest the problem as described by cbr786 really does not sound like EGR but more like a fuelling problem - the engine will shut down if it sees wrong fuel pressure information - at speed the engine could be sucking air into the fuel heater - they typically crack between the two pins of the electrical plug connection and if you pull the plug and smell fuel - guess what. Equally the fuel filter could be installed improperly. Or the fuel pump, or pressure sensor could be faulty. Equally injector(s) could produce the described behaviour by returning too much fuel. The ECU would see the excess demands of the injectors as a fault and go into limp home mode to save the engine, once it could no longer adjust to the demand. EGR is used to reduce Oxygen in the air introduced into the engine so that is has a cooler burn temperature and produces lass nasty gas. Some people do away with it all together, but I do not think that too wise. This does not sound like that sort of problem and, in fact, there are several P0 codes that do reflect upon EGR but not that have been mentioned.
The ECU uses data from the MAF to make a number of key decisions in running the engine, in fact, I would say the MAF was likely a primary consideration and, to be fair, a fault code that identifies an EGR fault may not be an EGR fault - it just appears that way to the ECU that is trying to resolve a difficulty that using EGR should help, but is not. That does not mean an EGR fault, it only means that there appears to be an EGR fault based upon the information the ECU has, which may in fact be in error and will be; if there is a problem with the MAF and/or its associated circuitry. I will always look at the MAF first.
I think that the hints you mention are perhaps leading you in the wrong direction, as similar fault codes led me astray in the past. I would not worry about the EGR unless you are absolutely sure the MAF Circuit is operating properly - which I doubt.
PO100 indicates (and it is only an indication) a MAF CIRCUIT FAULT so the first thing to check is MAF voltages. I suspect that you will find that the MAF and/or its associated circuit is the problem. You need to know voltage in and voltage out for a start - the circuit could be shorting to ground/earth, especially as Circuit Fault is a clue you appear to have. I dont recognise E400.1 as a OBD code, and would doubt it to be associated with EGR as associated engine codes are P (Powerplant) codes. How did you obtain the quoted codes?
I was wondering what part of the country you live in as there is a forum member living near Huntingdon. Richard has most of the kit needed to troubleshoot... and I have not seen him on this thread. If you live within 100 miles of Huntingdon I would pay him a visit - much less expensive than visiting a Chrysler garage!
vrc8883